Stories and thoughts - Entering my 40s
[–]rybeardj 0 points 8 years ago
You should look into how the Bible gets rewritten time and time again. This won't seem so amazing then.
"Those earlier documents no longer exist and the Bibles we have today are five linguistic removes from the first bibles written."
In my mind, I can kinda see god coming and inspiring each author of the bible. It only makes sense if god's gonna get a religion started.
I don't see god inspiring ever scribe, rabbi, monk, or scholar who translates and copies it. The KJV is a fairly decent example of bad translating, yet millions of Christians have adhered to it for centuries, and god hasn't seemed to bat an eye.
So, no, things like hidden messages seem irrelevant.
[–]arachnophilia appropriate 2 points 8 years ago
"Those earlier documents no longer exist and the Bibles we have today are five linguistic removes from the first bibles written."[1]
i'd argue about the "linguistic" part of that. many versions removed, yes. many languages, no. the old testament was originally written in hebrew and aramaic, and it's translated directly from hebrew and aramaic (or, you know, read in hebrew and aramaic). the new testament was originally written in greek, and is translated directly from greek. the aramaic primacy argument is bunk, so forget that.
the question is, what happened before the manuscripts we have?
[–]rybeardj 2 points 8 years ago*
I think you're right about how it's being done nowadays. However, for the KJV, things weren't that way. Here's what wiki has to say: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version#Variations_from_recent_translations
Also, I think this is a killer for "infallible word of god" arguments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_textual_variants_in_the_New_Testament
I'm not arguing that today's translations aren't close to the original manuscripts. My argument lies more in the fact that my parents have used the KJV their whole lives and I used to use it as well when I was younger. Using a translation that's far from perfect and basing all your beliefs on it is crazy, yet that's just what my parents have done, and I think a lot of fundies are still doing it. They claim perfection, because it's from god, yet it's clearly not perfection. Once that's proven, I think the rest kinda starts to lose its gloss.
Yet I readily agree with you that what happened before the manuscripts we have is quite a big deal. Think about it this way: if god, in all his amazingness, didn't protect the sanctity of the KJV, the bible that was used for centuries as the basis of the English-speaking world's christianity (and any missionaries sent from that part of the world into other countries), who's to say that he also didn't protect the sanctity of earlier source documents?
Basically, christians can huff and puff about the living breathing word of god all they want, and how it's god-inspired and perfect. But what's so perfect about the most-read translation of all time being far less than perfect?
Of course, christians then settle for the default of "well, it's still the same message". I don't know about you, but looking at the list of omitted verses, there was some pretty powerful verses or parts of verses missing. It may be the same general message, like get saved and Jesus can get you into heaven, but what about all the other stuff:
Mark 11:26 MT: But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.
CT: Verse omitted
This is doctrine-making material, yet it's not supposed to be there.
I think what's even crazier is that most Christians aren't even aware of this stuff.
edit: lots of grammar
[–]arachnophilia appropriate 1 point 8 years ago
right, i'm not disagreeing with any of that sort of thing, just the word "linguistic" in the above argument. all these sorts of changes are happening in the same language, not as a product of re-translation. the differences there are between the majority text (greek) and new manuscripts (also greek). all of these changes happened in the original language. there's nothing "linguistic" going on.
[–]rybeardj 1 point 8 years ago
Got it.
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